Do you have any EEA family permit advice?

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buryan
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Postby buryan » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:33 pm

Thank you all for the replies and advice. I will let you know how i get on when i begin the application process :)


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Postby phoenix2b » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:10 pm

My understanding about free travel within the "common"travel area is that a non EEA member can enter an EEA country as a spouse or family member-the UK have added their bit and Bulgaria may have done the same, which states that "spouse" requires a legal marriage or in the same sex scenario-the document that shows a civil ceremony was entered into- this would mean a girlfriend/boyfried does not get the rights of an EEA member. Famly member is limited to brother/sister/father/mother/son/daughter.
They have to reside together and be financial independant or supported by the EEA member.
Further the right to reside, is usually limited, without registrian. If longer periods are required, then registration is required- ie possible the residency card.

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:02 pm

phoenix2b wrote:My understanding about free travel within the "common"travel area is that a non EEA member can enter an EEA country as a spouse or family member-the UK have added their bit and Bulgaria may have done the same, which states that "spouse" requires a legal marriage or in the same sex scenario-the document that shows a civil ceremony was entered into- this would mean a girlfriend/boyfried does not get the rights of an EEA member. Famly member is limited to brother/sister/father/mother/son/daughter.
They have to reside together and be financial independant or supported by the EEA member.
Further the right to reside, is usually limited, without registrian. If longer periods are required, then registration is required- ie possible the residency card.


That is all well and fine, but as I understand the thread so far, the OP is NOT married to her partner, does not have a Civil Partnership agreement, but ALREADY HAS a UK Residency status, in fact the OP after a qualifying number of years living in the UK could apply for a British Passport and would most probably receive one. So, the question that I do not know the answer too is:- can a NON EU Citizen that already has a UK Residence permit, but not a UK Passport, live in Bulgaria or any other EU Country for that matter.

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Postby gimlet » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:47 pm

can a NON EU Citizen that already has a UK Residence permit, but not a UK Passport, live in Bulgaria or any other EU Country for that matter.


I understand the answer is no. No other EU State will recognise UK indefinite leave to remain because it's a purely national measure. There is a free-standing transferable right of residence for non-EU nationals once they have completed 5 years legal residence in a Member State but the UK does not grant that because it opted out of Directive 2003/109/EC. Ergo there is nothing to transfer.

There might be third-country-national rights of residence in another EU Member State derived from an EU national, but that wasn't your question.

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Postby MarkMc » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:39 am

My Ukrainian wife has been issued with a new style photo Lichna card which states "family member" in the remarks column. We will travel to Italy next month and I was under the impression she could travel with me without a visa. I did some google searches and believe this to be the case (for example on the Italian embassy in London website, it's true for British residence partners) http://www.conslondra.esteri.it/Consola ... in_italia/

However, I have contacted the Italian embassy in Sofia and they inform me that my wife does need a visa and that they havent been informed of this rule by the BG authorities. (Which I think is wrong info)

So, my question is, has anyone (non EU) travelled in the EU with the new ID cards stating family member without a visa? I know we can get an EEA family member visa free but as they said we have to apply and pickup in person, 2 roundtrips to Sofia from Varna is not desirable if not needed.

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:49 am

My Russian wife has the same card I haven't yet tried to cross any EU Borders with her, but was very much under the impression that 'she' (mine and yours) has the same right of freedom of travel within the EU.

It has nothing to do with Bulgaria as it is EU ruling. You could telephone the British Embassy Consulate in Sofia and ask for general advice or send them an email. If you don't get any joy there then, find SOLVIT via Google or perhaps using the search facility on here and send them an email. The EU Directives quoted somewhere in this thread are available in every EU language so, find the part in English that says what are the rights of EU Members and their Non EU Family members, highlight the corresponding paragraph in the Italian version and fax it off to them.

Some countries simply choose to ignore the directive as they see fit until challenged from the EU. Hence my Wife was messed about by the Bulgarian Embassy in Moscow being told she needed a type D Visa when she already had a type C and then being charged for it. I think our efforts via the EU complaints procedure might have corrected that issue, but at least we are to get our money back from the Bulgarian Embassy next time in Moscow.

Please do let us know how you get on with this.

Good luck.

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Postby MarkMc » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:53 pm

I wrote to solvit explaining my situation (see above, re visit to Italy) and this was their reply :


Thank you for contacting Your Europe - Advice.

According to Directive 2004/38/EC, when exercising their freedom of movement, Union citizens are entitled to be accompanied by their family members, irrespective of nationality.

Summary of Directive 2004/38/EC: http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/ ... 152_en.htm

It is true that Ukrainian nationals need visa in order to enter Italy, and any other EU member state. This is by virtue of Regulation № 539/2001: http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/ ... 07b_en.htm

However, if your wife holds a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" (under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC), she is entitled to enter Italy without visa. Please note that this card is different from her Bulgarian permanent residence card.

In case your wife does not hold such a card: according to Article 5 (2) of Directive 2004/38/EC, if she travels to join or accompany you, her visa should be issued free of charge and within an accelerated procedure.

Furthermore, according to the ''Practical Handbook for Border Guards (Schengen Handbook)'' and Commission Recommendation of of 25/VI/2008, the family members visa could be issued on the border too. So your wife could have her visa issued by the Italian authorities at the airport border.

For reference: see Commission Recommendation of of 25/VI/2008, Annex, (2) (h) (i) http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 3.en08.pdf :

''In case where a third-country national who is a member of the family of an EU/EEA citizen is not in possession of the required visa but can prove his/her identity and family tie with the EU/EEA citizen, and if there is no evidence that he/she poses a risk to the public policy, public security or public health requirements of the Member States, a visa must be issued to him/her at the border. Such a visa must be issued free of charge.

''Specific rules for issuing visas at the border to members of the family of citizens of EU/EEA countries who are third-country nationals subject to the visa requirement:

7.10 When a member of the family of an EU/EEA citizen, accompanying or joining the U/EEA citizen in question, arrives at the border without being in possession of the necessary visa, the Member State concerned must, before turning him/her back, give the person concerned every reasonable opportunity to corroborate or prove by other means that he/she is covered by the right of free movement. If he/she succeeds in doing so and if there is no evidence that he/she poses a risk to the public policy, public security or public health requirements, the visa must be issued to him/her without delay at the border. The visa must be issued free of charge.''

You can read the full text at:
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 3.en08.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/doc_ce ... hts_en.htm

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:35 pm

So, if I understood all the foregoing, your Ukrainian wife either needs a visa OR she doesn't, but if the Italian Immigration authorities insist that she does then, they must issue it at the border and for free?

Okay, the only problem that I can foresee is at the departure airline carrying you both as they must satisfy themselves that your Wife can enter Italy or they are responsible for flying her back free of charge from the departure airport.

I am 'quite' confident that if you have your marriage certificate with you then all will be okay. My Wife did not take my family surname as it was another load of hassle between Russia and Bulgaria so she still has her Russian family name and not mine, but the marriage certificate still proves that we are married.

How do you read the SOLVIT reply?

Footnote, just be aware that Bulgarian is NOT yet a party to the Schengen agreement which they hope to achieve next year or as soon as practicable.

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Postby MarkMc » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:40 am

I read it the same way as you moscowwolf. The biggest risk is if the airline refuse to let her board. Im also confident from the reply and other sources that we could have one issued at the border and as we have no time now to apply for a visa, we're just going to have to risk it.
Was worried about the line that said your Bulgarian residence card is not the same as......
On the plus side for us, we're flying from Ryanair in Constantsa, so their wont be the airline visa check as we check in online, just the border guards (I think this is how it'll be). I just plan to be assertive and will take some printouts of the directive, along with our marriage certificate.
I'll let you know how it goes. If all goes pear shaped, at least the ticket was only 6 euro and we'll just have to have a few days in Romania!


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