Reside in Bulgaria

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gimlet
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Postby gimlet » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:52 pm

Like making them live longer, you mean?

Life expectancy

Greece 80 years

Bulgaria 74 years

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Oscar
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Postby Oscar » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:11 pm

gimlet wrote:Like making them live longer, you mean?

Life expectancy

Greece 80 years

Bulgaria 74 years



Must be that retirement at 53,you know...the easy life....funnily enough,I can't recall them out on the streets rioting about that.
Meanwhile,in Bulgaria,the old babas go on and on,toiling away in there gardens,sure some of them must be over 74.
Oh...and the government still can't stop the dogs barking,can these Bulgarians get anything right.....Disgusted,Hertfordshire.

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:34 pm

gimlet wrote:I fail to see how foreign-owned retail, trying to sell selling foreign goods to people with no money can be a tonic for any economy. If there is any effect it will be to destroy more sectors of the local economy.

Education, health, law and order, national security, the national good, allowing people to run grass roots political campaigns: is there any function of government that works in Bulgaria?

At least they now have a new political party that describes the EU as a "falling elevator" and is making a case for withdrawal.


Surely, the investor's plan brings construction work, lots of aside privileges and then, middle class folk with a few spare dollars, buy the units and let them to retailers etc. All the time, somebody is making a dollar and the government are getting their percentage via VAT or notary taxes or something or other. Electricity, maintenance, cleaning, security, you name it, it all comes into the billing part of a modern shopping mall. I've worked for MEGA (IKEA) on huge Malls in Russia and they're raking it in by the bucket-full although, when it comes to security contract negotiation time, they're skint. Yeah, pull the other one. Plus, don't forget, you can have a loss leader if it launders your money. :roll:

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gimlet
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Postby gimlet » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:12 pm

I nipped down to my local FOCUS DIY last Sunday to see if I could get any bargains. Not really. Yesterday it was closed with a large sign reading "no stock inside".

They've probably been economising on rent payments for the last few months!

I think the Mall idea is so yesterday, I never go to them because capitalism does not deliver anything I want or need there. In fact this year's capitalism delivers so little of what I need that most of what I buy is second hand. Difficult to apply to food, though!

Commercial property is a tricky field involving lots of players: investors, banks, municipalities. The sector is pretty dire in UK at moment, no losses have been "recognised". Nobody is pushing at the moment but the structure will probably start to implode soon.

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Postby owain » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:41 am

Shopping Malls are all well and good if the population has enough money to shop in them. I don't know about Varna but Sofia now has too many. Each time they build a new one the others lose trade and the units become vacant.
The prices in the malls here are way above that of the same shops throughout the rest of Europe so they don't attract foreign buyers to come to Bulgaria on shopping trips and Bulgarian buyers can buy the same items online. Many of my girlfriends friends buy items from the UK and have them delivered to Bulgaria through sites like: http://easy2buy.bg/

Retail business isn't really the sort of investment Bulgaria needs, people need money in their pockets before they can go shopping.
Bulgaria does well in many sectors,Logistics,manufacturing,call centres,technology and textile industries. Everything the OP has stated is true but many other factors sometimes make it very difficult for investment here.

Companies are confronted with constant corruption and have to wait for 2 to 3 years,if they're lucky, before they can start developing their projects in many areas,it's a waste of time and money so what's the point.
If Bulgaria had an attractive business enviroment, International Companies would be falling over themselves to come here for all the reasons the OP has stated but their not so maybe it's about time the Government confronted these other issues instead.

The fact is that foreign investment is decreasing, the population is decreasing,they're not part of the Schengen agreement yet and Bulgaria want to join the ERM which wont happen if these trends continue.

Whether or not business in Varna is booming and you think Bulgaria has never had it so good, these are issues that are of deep concern to the Bulgarian Government. So much so,that the_lawyer, who works within the Government, has taken time out to post an advert on MYBG to foreigners stating how attractive it is to do business and reside here.
I believe the_lawyer is a skilled and respected Attorney and Sports Manager and would normally be a busy man so why bother making such a post unless it was needed?



And,as far as Greece is concerned, the people were lied to and 'mugged' by their Govenment with a lot of assistance from Goldman Sachs and now the people have to pay, this is why they are protesting
:wink:

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Postby spantrout » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:13 am

Owain wrote
And,as far as Greece is concerned, the people were lied to and 'mugged' by their Govenment with a lot of assistance from Goldman Sachs and now the people have to pay, this is why they are protesting


I think you'll find that a large part of Greece's problems stem from the fact that last year (and for many years previous) only around 12% of the working population paid income tax (income tax is only payable in Greece on amounts over $17,000 per year, (the government is aware it pays people more than $17,000 per year), and, that the state owns most industry and employs most people. If there is no tax revenue and no private sector how can a country grow?

Obviously the banks have played their part but it seems to me the Greek system is more open to abuse than BG's.

I can remember many years ago whilst travelling seeing thousands of unfinished buildings with re-bar sticking out of the flat concrete roof, this was because (certainly then) that if the building was unfinished then no tax was payable.

Seems to me the Greeks don't like paying tax, then complain their country is bankrupt, go figure!

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Postby owain » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:02 am

Quite right spantrout, Greeks do have an 'allergy' to taxes and have themselves to blame to a point. But as you say, the companies not paying taxes are Government owned and the Government has implemented a system that has allowed such abuse much for it's own benefit. Maybe worth a seperate post though..otherwise the MOD's will step in :wink: :lol:

There's plenty of legal loopholes in the Bulgarian tax system and these should be attractive for foreign companies as a good accountant can use these to their advantage. So why isn't it more attractive to do business in Bulgaria? Is it because it's less problematic and less risky elsewhere?

On paper, Bulgaria is probably the best place in Europe to conduct business, especially when companies have to tighten their belts and lower operation costs. Where else can you trade directly in the European market and have such a low outlay?
I've seen enough large investors,foreign and Bulgarian, give up and invest elsewhere to know why :wink:
Sort out these issues and it will be an attractive place to do business.

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spantrout
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Postby spantrout » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:14 pm

Owain wrote
Quite right spantrout, Greeks do have an 'allergy' to taxes and have themselves to blame to a point. But as you say, the companies not paying taxes are Government owned and the Government has implemented a system that has allowed such abuse much for it's own benefit. Maybe worth a seperate post though..otherwise the MOD's will step in




I would disagree this topic needs a seperate post because it will depend on if the EU exists or not and if BG will be a part of it, FDI will flow from the answers to these questions.

Firstly going back to my last post, consider the numbers of lost revenue in Greece:-

3.5 million (tax evaders) x (lets assume a tax rate of 10%) $1,700 x 20 years = by my calculation $119,000,000,000, enough money not to bankrupt the country, or put in another way, exactly the amount of the first bailout!

Secondly, if the EU is such a marvellous club to be in, exactly who are the accountants? I would have expected that the ELITE of EUROPE would actually examine the books of countries before allowing them to join.

My question therefore is this, who exactly examined the books of GREECE, IRELAND, PORTUGAL, SPAIN and possibly ITALY and missed an accounting deficit of some $600 billion dollars? Now, surely a blind monkey would notice this. I hear some of you cry but you forgot about the financial crisis, well that really is my point, the accountants at the EU were obviously in bed with the same toxic loans and deemed them to be good/viable, so how can anyone be sure of what the EU deems to be good/appropriate/viable if they miss something of this magnitude, and whats to say it will not happen again.

So to summarise and get back on topic (to keep the MODs and Owain happy) IF the Eurozone survives this mess then I would suggest it would be in BG's interest to remove itself from this wonderful club and create it's own conditions for FDI, then it may find itself in a position far ahead of the aforementioned countries, if it tackles the problem of corruption and beaurocracy.

I'm not euro sceptic, I happen to think integration is a very good thing, it has just been handled in a very shoddy manner.

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Postby owain » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 pm

This is a problem with the EU, accounting is the responsibility of individual states and not centralized. It's the same with many aspects of the EU from funding down to vehicle licensing.Should the European Parliament be given more control over it's member states and the Union as a whole?

In most of the Countries you mention,the banking industry were allowed to interfere and profit. Spain and Portugal also suffered massive losses in the property sector,which accounted for 15% to 20% of their GDP.

The banking industry has a lot to answer for but so have the Worlds governments for allowing the banks to instigate the crisis but governments still bailed out banks and they continue business as usual. The UK is a good example, the British economy is heavily reliant on the financial industry so who's in control really?

This is why we are seeing so much unrest across Europe, people are realising that this could happen again, the banks haven't really had to pay for what they've done to World Economy.In fact the Banks know that governments now need them to recover the Economy :roll:

Would Bulgaria benefit from leaving the EU? I don't think they would now and I think they're too committed to leave anyway, it would cost them too much. I also don't think big business' would be too confident in a Country that joins, takes the funds then leaves :lol:

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spantrout
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Postby spantrout » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:15 pm

Owain wrote
This is a problem with the EU, accounting is the responsibility of individual states and not centralized


Well if EU member states allow a country to join its club, then surely it is upto the club to understand the joinee's financial status.

I think you'll find Germany would be more than happy to kick Greece out the club, but it's too late now, why? because they never looked at the books closely enough, and who's paying the price now, France and perhaps Germany. Even if they were to kick out Greece it would destroy their precious project.

Perhaps I have misunderstood the purpose of the ECB.

Which happens to stand for the European CENTRAL Bank, so how are accounts not to some degree scrutinised before joining?


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