The Russian are Coming (Legally)..

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Moscow_Wolf
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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:09 pm

PCVrach wrote:Until recently we all had to suffer the visa/reporting constraints before Bulgaria joined the EU. I remember it well. So I sympathise.

For those wanting to bash the Russians, while it is true some of those with money got it from the backs of the normal Joe Public, you cannot tar them all with the same brush! Plenty of westerners with money got it the same way IMHO.

Russian and Bulgarian is not the same, shares some similarities just like Russian and Polish or other East European countries. So speaking Russian does not mean you will understand Bulgarian. If you are from the Ukraine it is easier, as Ukrainian and Bulgarian share more similarities.

To sum up I think the balance needs to be right, visa access needs to be simpler but still there, which is hopefully what they are proposing?

Regards David.


This is exactly what I love and hate about My Bulgaria. On what do you base that statement - are you a professor in Slavic languages? I can assure you that a Pole can speak Polish and a Russian answer in Russian and 99.9% they will understand each other the SAME as a Bulgarian can speak Bulgarian and a Russian answer in Russian and they will understand each other. That is HOW I am getting my house bulit and Russian is not my first language and probably why I will be living in the village Pentagon.

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the russians are coming (legally)

Postby DaveyBoy » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:20 pm

Dear MW,

I don't know you at all but I really enjoy your informative postings! I respect what you have to say so please don't 'gareth' bale on us!!

You have to see off some of the new kids on the block, which to be fair you do very well.

I have nothing really to say about Russians apart from the fact that they are I am led to believe building some holiday homes in my village which I take to be a good thing! Any new investment has to be positive regardless of the nationalities involved!!

I'm missing BG a lot as its been nearly a year since my last visit so I cannot wait until July to enjoy a Kamenitsa/Zagorka under a star lit sky!!! happy days,

cheers

Daveyboy

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Postby PCVrach » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:52 am

Rubbish MW!

My wife is Russian. Her father was Polish. She understands maybe 30% at best.

Her sister is Russian, when she came to Bulgaria she understood practically no Bulgarian, not enough to hold a conversation anyway.

Other Russians tell me the same thing, including my old Russian teacher in the UK. I'm sure I can find a professor (actually I think I know one or two, including the brother in law) if you really think it is necessary?

The reason a lot of (older) Bulgarians speak and understand Russian is that at one time there were close ties between the two countries, Russians used to go to spa resorts in Bulgaria, particularly army personnel. Some Bulgarians like my neighbour studied in Russia. Sadly he passed away at the begining of this year :cry: He was a very nice, kind man and will be deeply missed!

This may be one reason why Russians dislike the visa system now in place, they used to holiday there. Now they have to pay and register to stay. My wife tells me it is in the Russian news today that they are talking about some agreement between Russia and the West to extend the visa free agreement between EU countries to Russia too, I think it is unlikely but it would be good for Russians wanting to holiday in Bulgaria should this happen :)

Please keep your posts factual. You do contribute some good information, please don't water this down with errors!

Regards, David.

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Postby scot47 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:30 am

Some Russians are certainly reluctant to accept that they can understand Bulgarian simply through their knowledge of Russian. Last summer I was at Albena with my daughters, staying in a hotel full of Russians and Ukrainians. We sat down at a table with a lone Rusian. I said out of politeness, "Dobur Den !"

His reply in Russian was "I do not speak Bulgarian". They have the same attitude to foreign languages as the Anglos !

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Postby buttercup » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:16 am

Maybe the russians are coming because there are more flights in to Varna from Russia( 13 yesterday) and only 2 from UK.

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Postby varnaman » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:22 am

As some of you will know my wife is Bulgarian and lived all her life in Varna. She studied Russian at school then English through choice. She had a business in a major Varna street where Russians were frequent visitors. She and her fellow Bulgarians ( Not all of whom studied Russian) could fairly easily understand the Russians through logic and intelligent thought. Sadly the majority of Russians couldn't/wouldn't make the effort --- these are facts mixed with opinion and so cannot apply to all Bulgarians or all Russians. She often commented on how many Bulgarians have a bad impression of the arrogance and stupidity of Russians for this reason.
PCVrach--this is not in any way a comment or judgement on your wife,as I don't do that with other people's wifes through courtesy,and of course expect the same in return,both on this forum and elsewhere in my life.
A number of Russians,often with criminal connections, could easily have their stay extended in Varna through corruption (Some Brits done the same,only a few lev and hey presto passport stamped),so these measures might help to stop some officials lining their pockets.
The Russians have always been a major spending force and boost for the tourist industry,so I would imagine the Bulgarians will be more than happy to get extra visitors,who love spending money ! Quite a number of Russians were buying property so perhaps it'll bring more money into Bulgaria that way also.

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Postby PCVrach » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:34 am

When you consider that the flights are more expensive from Russia (unless was BA :D ) that is quite interesting.

Since some Russians I have met are bi-lingual and some speak 3 and 4 languages I doubt they have the same attitude as most Brits. Yes learning a foreign language is hard, but it opens more doors and allows the sharing of information IMHO.

If you speak Russian you can get by in Bulgaria as some older people understand if not speak it, if you have English as well many younger people particularly in the tourist areas speak it so best of both worlds :D

In the poorer areas where you don't see many foreigners this obviously would be lower or non-existant.

Regards, David.

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:39 am

PCVrach wrote:Rubbish MW!

Please keep your posts factual. You do contribute some good information, please don't water this down with errors!

Regards, David.


So you MUST be right then as you have a Russian wife and a Polish Father in Law. :roll:

I was actually taught Russian by an ex-Polish Spitfire pilot, have had TWO Russian wives one of which had a very close association with a Pole that I met. Agreed, all conversations between these two were in Russian, but whilst travelling through Poland, my then Wife spoke only Russian and was answered only in Polish and they understood each other.

You said 30%, well, I would suggest that when one knows the SUBJECT matter then, one can follow the conversation. I am not talking NASA level technical understanding, I am talking about a general understanding and if you know the subject matter then, you can be understood and understand.

I even do it myself with my workers, me speaking Russian and them answering in Bulgarian. Admittedly, they have been taught Russian, but I have never been taught any Bulgarian.

Now, I also know and accept that these two languages have great similarities and great differences, but they are both SLAVIC languages and a lot of present day nouns and verbs in Bulgarian can be found in OLD Russian.

It is only two years ago on a cold dark January night near Craven Arms in the UK that I nearly ran into the back of an articulated lorry that was trying to make an illegal manoeuvre on a country lane. I got out of the car and let a salvo go in Russian as to the stupidity of the driver. My then Girlfriend now Wife thinking that I had forgotten that we had left Moscow by air that same morning asked me, 'why are you shouting at him in Russian?'. I answered, 'because he has bl**dy Polish number plates!'.

We ended up having a conversation, him in Polish and me in Russian and understood each other perfectly well even if not word for word. I even escorted him to a safer turning place.

So, I stick to my knowledge and real life experiences and you stick to what you call facts.

Thank you.
Last edited by Moscow_Wolf on Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby scot47 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:47 am

My experiences mirror those of Mr Wolf. On many occasions I have been with Russian-speakers and have managed well enough with my Bulgarian and their Russian. I also watch movies in Russian and find that I can understand a lot without the benefit of the subtitles.

I can understand a lot of Serbian too and have spoken at some length with Serbian-speakers, using my knowledge of Bulgarian. Other Slavonic languages present moire of a challenge to me. Slovenian, Slovak and Czech for example are pretty impenetrable.

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Russians

Postby PCVrach » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:01 pm

MW you are trying to infer that if you speak Russian you can understand Bulgarian, while some of the words are similar, many are completely different. Polish is nearer to Russian than Bulgarian, my wife can understand and hold a conversation in Polish but has difficulty speaking it, despite the hereditary advantage. She is able to guess some words given subject matter and context, this is not the same as speaking the language!

Suffice it to say, your "experiences" and mine differ, I can get by in Russian but understand nothing (practically) in Bulgarian. We have had many guests and family members from the former USSR (not just Russia) and they say the same, they cannot understand Bulgarian. They would be quite happy to converse with Bulgarians if they could, maybe it is just Moskavites who are rude and lazy with the language? I have found most Russians I have ever met (many) to be communicative if able.

Bulgarians have the advantage that many of them will speak some Russian as used to study it in schools, I am not familiar with any Russian schools teaching Bulgarian mainstream.

Your opinions (experiences ect) count, just please dont try to pass them off as facts, thank you.

Kranevo is teeming (well not really busy so perhaps wrong word there) with Russians, I walk past being able to understand them perfectly whereas my
English friend living here cannot, when I didnt understand someone I asked him "Bulgarian"? and invariably the answer was yes. Without them the place would be deserted so it is good the Russians are still coming!

Wifes best friends sister and family will be arriving soon from Latvia, Latvian and Russian speakers so will be interesting to see how much if any Bulgarian they understand :)

Regards, David.


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