I HATE the wood burning stove. Any alternatives please.

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seathrift
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Postby seathrift » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:59 am


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Postby donno » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:02 am

Hi
I would be interested in to why inside insulation is a no no

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Postby Slaphead » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:21 am

According to these knowledgeable guys, solid walls can be internally or externally insulated:

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/In- ... insulation

Damn, there goes another myth!

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Postby karenm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:34 am

Slaphead wrote:According to these knowledgeable guys, solid walls can be internally or externally insulated:

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/In- ... insulation

Damn, there goes another myth!


Seems you need to watch out for condensation

Can you buy the rigid plasterbacked insulation boards ( where?)

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Postby brianj42 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:49 am

Cannot emphasise enough, you can never have too much insulation inside or out. The new super insulated houses being built have annual heating bills cheaper than a weeks shopping. With the ever rising cost of fuels/electric and the diminishing fossil fuels then super insulating is the way to limit your exposure to the rising costs.

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:55 am

karenm wrote:
Slaphead wrote:Where are you going to find a 'Maister' (of which there are loads) in BG who has even heard of these alternative heating systems?
Plus, as I recal from a recent watchdog type programme, it's next to impossible to recoup the cost of installation, of these 'air' systems in their projected life.
A friend has recently installed a ground source heating system. By all accounts it works very well. They had to dig somewhere in the region of 500m of 2m deep by 1.5m wide trenches in the garden to accomodate the coils.


I think the thread was more about

Not messing around with wood
Not re-painting
not cleaning ashes
Not having lots of dust/smoke


As opposed to saving money, Technopolis have installers for the inverter air con units, if they really do work at 5:1 4:1 then they sound pretty good, do not know enough about them to say


Well, the OP asked for alternatives and hence we've gone on discussing 'cleaner options' however, hindsight is a great thing and I for one, am stuck with my wood burning stove and still working out how best to cut down on the amount of smoke that escapes it now and again and makes my paint work depressingly dirty.

Therefore, I am still looking at making some kind of ball-pane hammered copper or aluminium sheet canopy in an attempt to trap some of the escaping smoke which happens every now and again if the wind is in the wrong direction or, I open the door when the flue is half closed. As I said in an earlier post, I wish now that I had built in an extractor fan in the chimney system to suck the unwanted smoke away, but I didn't.

Anyway, here is a link to a company that sells these 'fire surrounds' for specific stoves (maybe even made to measure), they call it Tiling on their website and I don't recall seeing a price, but I had saved the link months ago for future reference. BTW. If the music annoys, scroll to the very bottom of the page - left side and there is a mute button.

http://www.maks-4em.com/maks4em-en.html

To follow on from other comments, I personally do not see the sense in having a stand alone Wood burner, in my opinion, it should heat water or a radiator to two to get the most out of it. Even that ECOFAN advertised on this site, might be worth a try to circulate heat better, but I don't know, never tried one. Might be that it also spreads smoke and dust further as well. :?

I have what you could term as an ECO house built from YTONG thermal blocks with very thick roof insulation, under floor heating from the wood burning stove and hot water from the sun, electric and stove depending on which is needed. Outside cladding insulation and this is only a small future guest house, but my biggest problem though is condensation. Of course, I do open the windows at every daytime opportunity, but this is not always possible especially when someone else considers it to be cold. :roll:

Therefore, I reckon I shall have to try a dehumidifier at some future date. My walls are all painted with Dulux washable paint so they do not get damp, but if you don't keep an eye out, mould will start behind bedside tables etc.

I can only assume that this might be why someone said inside insulation is a no no - damp?

Concerning outside insulation, there are different schools of thought, some Bulgarians prefer to place the thick white polystyrene boards and others the more dense green (Fibran). Again, with hindsight, I would have gone for the Fibran rather than the thick white stuff I have. They are held in place with a few dollops of something like CM 11 (Tile adhesive) and held into place with a special plastic clip that acts like a raw-plug into the wall, but has a circular web kind of head to stop it breaking through the insulation. It is indeed skimmed on to a mesh again with something like CM 11 and then render to the type of finish you require whether that be stippled or smooth.

As far as I understand it, there should be an air-gap between wall and insulation and hence the dollops of 'mix' are placed on the insulation board, but this provides a nice home for ants and other creepy crawlies if you're not careful and is also why, (my guess) something like stone cladding is added at the bottom as well as to stop water ingress from splashing rain water etc.

When I start the next stage of my long-term building project, I shall rethink this wood burning stove issue, I still think it is nice to have one for effect during those winter days and nights, but I want something cleaner. If I ever realise my own electricity supply then, I'll go all electric, but I am not paying EVN for the privilege of not having smoke and smoke stained walls.

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Postby karenm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:03 am

Moscow_Wolf wrote:Where are you going to find a When I start the next stage of my long-term building project, I shall rethink this wood burning stove issue, I still think it is nice to have one for effect during those winter days and nights, but I want something cleaner. If I ever realise my own electricity supply then, I'll go all electric, but I am not paying EVN for the privilege of not having smoke and smoke stained walls.


The link I placed further up has air to water heat pumps with 4/5 to one efficiency 5kw for price of 1

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Postby brianj42 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:28 am

The only problem with any Ground Source Heating is the initial cost to install (£6k - £10k) and the payback period. If you look at the "best case" savings against current systems as below you see that best case is replacing electric = 10+ years, but replacing a wood burner = 20+ years.

Savings annually:

Gas = £130
Electric = £610
Oil = £310
Wood = £330

Again. You have to also take into consideration the long term facts that oil, gas and electric prices are forever rising and will probably triple in the next 10 years and oil/gas will eventually run out.

Editted to add: I suppose if you are installing from new (first system) then you can take into consideration the cost of one installing of the other systems anyway which would make the GSHP system not to much more expensive.

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Postby karenm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:47 am

brianj42 wrote:The only problem with any Ground Source Heating is the initial cost to install (£6k - £10k) and the payback period. If you look at the "best case" savings against current systems as below you see that best case is replacing electric = 10+ years, but replacing a wood burner = 20+ years.Savings annually:

Gas = £130
Electric = £610
Oil = £310
Wood = £330

Again. You have to also take into consideration the long term facts that oil, gas and electric prices are forever rising and will probably triple in the next 10 years and oil/gas will eventually run out.

Editted to add: I suppose if you are installing from new (first system) then you can take into consideration the cost of one installing of the other systems anyway which would make the GSHP system not to much more expensive.


Air to water as opposed to ground source seem to be cheaper to install , maybe less efficient when temperature drops

Not sure a wood burning back boiler would last 20 years though

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Postby brianj42 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:54 am

Sorry. The £6k-£10k install cost was for the Air Source heating. The Ground source install costs is £9k to £17k.

But the savings figures I quoted are for both systems.

This would make the payback for GSHP even longer.

Either way, new install, I would also install underfloor heating rather than radiators, underfloor gives a better home heat.


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