I HATE the wood burning stove. Any alternatives please.

Whats it like? What to expect? How does it work? Questions and answers here about 'any' aspect of....'the good life'!

Moderator: Moderator

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
karenm
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 97
Location: Yorkshire UK, Vasilivo

Postby karenm » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:55 pm

Slaphead wrote:
karenm wrote:
Slaphead wrote:
karenm wrote:
I have the 34kw boiler (wood burner) but sometimes this is too much when days are mild, and I find myself having to burn wood for the sake of it just to keep the fire going


Why do you need to keep the fire going on mild days?
We also have a 34kW wood burner, powering 13 radiators and have no problem letting it go out on mild days, or even mild nights of which last night was a case in point. That could be down to insulation I suppose, which is by far the cheapest method of ensuring warmth in winter and coolness in summer.
Also, picking up on a point that MW mad re smoke from the fire into the house. If you have that situation your installation is wrong. Sack your heating engineer and either get someone who knows what they're talking about or try doing a bit of research on Google regarding chimneys and stack effect. It's not rocket science.


By the way I have been researching using search engines since well before google or any other of the mainstream searech engines existed


Well done.
The query still stands.


what is it you want to know?

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
Moscow_Wolf
Mega User!
Mega User!
Posts: 4532
Location: Near Karnobat

Postby Moscow_Wolf » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:49 pm

Slaphead wrote:
Also, picking up on a point that MW mad re smoke from the fire into the house. If you have that situation your installation is wrong. Sack your heating engineer and either get someone who knows what they're talking about or try doing a bit of research on Google regarding chimneys and stack effect. It's not rocket science.



That is a bit OTT. Everyone gets some smoke at some time unless they're perfect. If you let your fire die down and there is a back-draft it can smoke. Perhaps the Heating Engineer is not to blame, but me or, the man who built the chimney.


:roll:

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
jadamwilliams
<b>Transport Services/Translations</b>
Posts: 153
Location: Straxilovo, Polski Trambesh

Postby jadamwilliams » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:14 pm

If it's a rocket stove, would it be rocket science ?? :lol:

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
Hippyboy
Super User!
Super User!
Posts: 1175
Location: Rusalya , nr. Veliko Turnovo

Postby Hippyboy » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:26 am

Well as its been chucking it down with rain all day and I've got the flu , I've spent most of my time researching air-source heat pumps , with fairly mixed results . Karenm had previously posted some links (which of course can lead to other links) and with a bit of googling you can end up even more confused than you were to start with , with all the conflicting info . Eventually I found a really good current appraisal of how good(or bad) they are at heating your home and providing you with hot water (link below) , and whether they might or might not be worth investing in , depending on your circumstances . Weather and adequate insulation apart , there are many other factors to consider , particularly that their optimal output temperature is much lower than a normal boiler , so that ideally you should have more/ or larger radiators , larger bore pipes and a faster flow rate , running 24/7 in winter , to get the best out of the system The biggest problem seemed to be that their surveys concluded that most systems in the UK had been incorrectly installed , leading to poor results , so they highly recommended getting a COMPETENT installer ; what chance in Bulgaria then ? Interesting reading though , Tim .

http://www.earth.org.uk/air-source-heat-pump.html

Sorry I've gotta feeling that links not gonna work , and anyway you then need to scroll down to their Sources/links - 2011/11/20 NEW Air Source Heat Pumps- Friend or Foe (which is a pdf) ; although there is a lot of other interesting stuff as well .

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
karenm
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 97
Location: Yorkshire UK, Vasilivo

Postby karenm » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:49 am

Hippyboy wrote:Well as its been chucking it down with rain all day and I've got the flu , I've spent most of my time researching air-source heat pumps , with fairly mixed results . Karenm had previously posted some links (which of course can lead to other links) and with a bit of googling you can end up even more confused than you were to start with , with all the conflicting info . Eventually I found a really good current appraisal of how good(or bad) they are at heating your home and providing you with hot water (link below) , and whether they might or might not be worth investing in , depending on your circumstances . Weather and adequate insulation apart , there are many other factors to consider , particularly that their optimal output temperature is much lower than a normal boiler , so that ideally you should have more/ or larger radiators , larger bore pipes and a faster flow rate , running 24/7 in winter , to get the best out of the system The biggest problem seemed to be that their surveys concluded that most systems in the UK had been incorrectly installed , leading to poor results , so they highly recommended getting a COMPETENT installer ; what chance in Bulgaria then ? Interesting reading though , Tim .

http://www.earth.org.uk/air-source-heat-pump.html

Sorry I've gotta feeling that links not gonna work , and anyway you then need to scroll down to their Sources/links - 2011/11/20 NEW Air Source Heat Pumps- Friend or Foe (which is a pdf) ; although there is a lot of other interesting stuff as well .


Hi

After quite a lot of looking into this myself there appears to be a fair number of happy users and a fair number of unhappy ones, which ties in with the 'energy trust field trials ' you quoted.

It seems also that the suppliers COP is based in the main on the higher temperatures say 5 and above and there does not appear to be a clarity about performance below 0 and beyond, although there are users with installs that say they are very pleased when it is -15 outside

It is hard though to quantify because when buying something like this you will probably at the same time take steps to improve things like insulation (which is what I intend to do) so the cost benefit then becomes masked somewhat by these other factors.

Having read that thread 900 posts and many links that spun off it I think at this point I would only invest with the aim of using when temps were above 5 OR below that but sunny and I would mount the unit in a sunny location protected from northerly winds.

Installing in this way could see the temperature on a cold -5 day rise ( in the sun) to above 10 degrees which would be very usefull for the heatpump. but before some one says "that will be bad for aircon in summer" човек прави сянка

I am lucky that at the moment I have no aircon so the heatpump cost can be partially offset.

At the end of the day it is living how you want to live also that comes into it, like not having to come back to a cold house after being out all day as the timer will handle things like that.

I would never get rid of the wood burner as I believe this is far better value when the weather gets very harsh.

Among the users on the various forums I read it is the AIR TO AIR installations that in the main seem the happiest and there are more issues with the AIR TO WATER installations

I will report back after my install sometime this month

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
Hippyboy
Super User!
Super User!
Posts: 1175
Location: Rusalya , nr. Veliko Turnovo

Postby Hippyboy » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:53 pm

Hi Karenm , I'm not a fan of aircon , and like you like woodburners which I use in the village cottage I'm currently living in , backed up electric heating when neccessary . However , I'm trying to renovate an old house in VT which currently has no heating (although I've had the chimneys rebuilt) or effective insulation . It has great views , but is only accessible down a steep flight of stone steps , and then a 30m entrance path with more steps , making firewood deliveries difficult , although many of the neighbours do get logs dropped off at the top of the steps and then pay to have them chopped and humped down ; it also currently doesn't have adequate storage for firewood . As coal,oil,or LPG would all also be problematic the only previous alternative I'd considered was mains gas , which apparrently now exists in VT , but I don't know anybody that's got it , how easy it is to get connected (if possible all at all in my location) or how much it costs ; Bulgarian friends say that its expensive , but who knows . Given that either gas or ASHP central heating would require the installation of radiators (underfloor isn't practical in this house) and that ASHP is in theory at least much easier to install , it looks like a viable alternative ; particularly as I might have to jump through hoops and pay an arm and a leg to get a mains gas supply , if they'd actually supply me at all ! Of course I'll have to look into it in much greater detail , and I would still plan on having a woodburner as back-up/booster system that would at least be able to heat one room , and maybe hot water and a couple of rads , but the real problem is are there state-of-the-art ASHP's available in Bulgaria , and is there anybody capable of installing and maintaining them . I know that some at least half-decent external units are available (even my local village shop has one) but I've only seen them connected to blower units internally ; a lot more research needed i suspect , Tim .

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
karenm
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 97
Location: Yorkshire UK, Vasilivo

Postby karenm » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:15 pm

Hippyboy wrote:Hi Karenm , I'm not a fan of aircon , and like you like woodburners which I use in the village cottage I'm currently living in , backed up electric heating when neccessary . However , I'm trying to renovate an old house in VT which currently has no heating (although I've had the chimneys rebuilt) or effective insulation . It has great views , but is only accessible down a steep flight of stone steps , and then a 30m entrance path with more steps , making firewood deliveries difficult , although many of the neighbours do get logs dropped off at the top of the steps and then pay to have them chopped and humped down ; it also currently doesn't have adequate storage for firewood . As coal,oil,or LPG would all also be problematic the only previous alternative I'd considered was mains gas , which apparrently now exists in VT , but I don't know anybody that's got it , how easy it is to get connected (if possible all at all in my location) or how much it costs ; Bulgarian friends say that its expensive , but who knows . Given that either gas or ASHP central heating would require the installation of radiators (underfloor isn't practical in this house) and that ASHP is in theory at least much easier to install , it looks like a viable alternative ; particularly as I might have to jump through hoops and pay an arm and a leg to get a mains gas supply , if they'd actually supply me at all ! Of course I'll have to look into it in much greater detail , and I would still plan on having a woodburner as back-up/booster system that would at least be able to heat one room , and maybe hot water and a couple of rads , but the real problem is are there state-of-the-art ASHP's available in Bulgaria , and is there anybody capable of installing and maintaining them . I know that some at least half-decent external units are available (even my local village shop has one) but I've only seen them connected to blower units internally ; a lot more research needed i suspect , Tim .

Here are some suppliers in Varna

http://www.reecl.org/si_pmp_tbl.php?dist=varna&frm=

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
Slaphead
Pig Headed
Posts: 1940

Postby Slaphead » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:35 pm

[quote="Moscow_Wolf"][quote="Slaphead"]

Also, picking up on a point that MW mad re smoke from the fire into the house. If you have that situation your installation is wrong. Sack your heating engineer and either get someone who knows what they're talking about or try doing a bit of research on Google regarding chimneys and stack effect. It's not rocket science.[/quote]


That is a bit OTT. Everyone gets some smoke at some time unless they're perfect. If you let your fire die down and there is a back-draft it can smoke. Perhaps the Heating Engineer is not to blame, but me or, the man who built the chimney.


:roll:[/quote]

I'm sorry I picked on your heating engineer, but the only times you should get smoke into your room from the fire is when the chimney is blocked, either by having the flu damper closed or by some other blockage in the chimney, this assumes the chimney and fire are correctly installed and the fire has a ready air supply.
As I said, there's a ton of info on the web about chimneys and stack effect and it doesn't need a degree in an engineering subject to understand it.
In the close to 5 years we've been here this is the first winter where I've been satisfied with our fire's performance.
To achieve this I've improved the installation, year on year to it's current configuration. The 2 most important parts of the improvements were the installation of an insulated flu/chimney (double skinned stainless flu with 3cm of insulation between the skins) and a continuous flexi steel flu liner connecting the output of the fire directly to the external, insulated flu.
Even with no fire lit, the fire draws air from the room regardless of what the conditions are like outdoors - that's stack effect.
We will be installing double glazing later this year. When we do this, I'll ensure that we don't seal the house. i.e. there'll be adequate ventilation throughout the year. Currently, we get condensation, but only on the single glazed, draughty windows. Condensation is a subject all of it's own but it only occurs where warm moist air meets a cold surface. This can be prevented by installing a vapour barrier which is what internally installed insulation can be.

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
spantrout
Super User!
Super User!
Posts: 936
Location: Valchi Dol
Contact:

Postby spantrout » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:37 pm

All this green technology, and what's really green. At least with a wood burner there is a minimal amount of carbon in production and delivery, and the burning of wood is carbon neutral, in that the wood only releases the carbon it has stored.

Yes it might be messy and a hassle, but consider the carbon in ur fancy nancy air heat pump systems and u may not be as green as u think!!!!!

Sell Overseas Property
Cash For Your Property
User avatar
Slaphead
Pig Headed
Posts: 1940

Postby Slaphead » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:41 pm

[quote="spantrout"]All this green technology, and what's really green. At least with a wood burner there is a minimal amount of carbon in production and delivery, and the burning of wood is carbon neutral, in that the wood only releases the carbon it has stored.

Yes it might be messy and a hassle, but consider the carbon in ur fancy nancy air heat pump systems and u may not be as green as u think!!!!![/quote]

It's even better that that spantrout. Burning wood releases only 10% of the carbon absorbed by the tree during it's life, back into the atmosphere. The remainder is ash, soot, etc..


Return to “Village Life - including Gardening, Agriculture, Flora and Fauna Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests