Bottled Gas?

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VickyC
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Postby VickyC » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:29 pm

Hi

Thanks for all the replies, will check the gas bottle for the label. The only jets we got were the ones already on it, so we will try to get gas jets for it before using again.



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Last edited by VickyC on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby seathrift » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:29 pm

It is correct to say that the jets must those designed for use with bottled gas. The size of the jet is normally stamped on the side of the jet and the sizes required for Natural or bottled gas should be noted in the cooker information leaflet. As stated in other posts a cooker supplier should be able to tell you the required size and supply the correct ones.
So far as the correct type of gas is concerned my researches have found that only autogas is available in BG, which is a mixture of Butane and Propane, but while I believe this information is correct I have been unable to get official confirmation. The colour of the bottle is not relevant in BG.
Remember that when in the bottle the gas is in liquid form and therefore performs as a liquid and not a gas. So do not fill the bottles totally and always store and use them in the upright position.
With regard to reducing static electricity, avoid clothes made with man made fibres and earth your body to a metal post or similar that goes well into the ground. Metal water pipes for instance. Out in the open air the gas concentration is very unlikely to be explosive, but without seeing the situation I cannot say that is absolutely certain. However even a slight breeze should disperse the gas effectively.
The bottles contain gas at a very high pressure and should be checked at the manufacturers specified intervals. The safest way to do this is to buy ready filled bottles that are available at many garages. You pay for the cylinder once only and then return the bottle for a ready filled one for the cost of the gas supplied.

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:07 pm

seathrift wrote:The bottles contain gas at a very high pressure and should be checked at the manufacturers specified intervals. The safest way to do this is to buy ready filled bottles that are available at many garages. You pay for the cylinder once only and then return the bottle for a ready filled one for the cost of the gas supplied.


I know of one or two Expats that have bought those Gold or Bronze coloured gas bottles at the Pazaar. They're usually manufactured in Turkey as far as I know, have no EU safety markings (not surprising) and no service record to my knowledge whatsoever, People use these high pressure Liquid Petroleum Gas bottles in their homes with Turkish Regulators and hose connections bought at the market.

We all take some risk with anything under pressure in containers, but if I said, here, pull the pin out of this hand-grenade and play with it, you'd think that I'd lost the plot, so why do it with cheap gas containers and ancillaries.
:roll:

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Postby walkage » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:22 pm

Ok - Only saw this thread by chance - but as we cook with gas bottle etc...

Now I did see an article last year - I think Novinite but not sure that there was a problem with overfilling these bottles - we have a lovely blue one etc etc..At first we got filled to the top - 19leva - but for the last 2 times the 'garage' has looked at the disc on the base of the bottle and only filled half full - 10 leva..

I am assuming that it's a case of better safe than sorry - not fussed as 10leva will last us for 3 months and agree with the safety side.
But what is truely behind this I don't know...I expect that there have been explosions so now responsible garages are playing safe - fine by me...

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Postby bricky » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:27 pm

i would like to thank andy who dealt with my question (by a PM )on the thread i posted before it was blocked.

i was wanting to know why ,after 3 years of getting gas bottles filled on a regular basis suddenly 1 of the garages is refusing to fill them, while another one is filling them, but watching his back as if we are doing something illegal.i know gas bottles for cars have to have a certificate now ,but just wanted to know if it has been made law for domestic gas bottles also

jan

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Postby fredatinsch » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:08 am

Once we could no longer get our Gaz bottles re-filled at a local garage, we took them to Veliko Turnovo, this we have done since last summer. Now we can no longer get them re-filled at this garage. Not a big problem, we exchange them at Gorna Oryahovitsa. In yesterday and the garage attendant saw an empty small gaz bottle that we had with the larger one in the truck. He told us to go round to the Gaz pump, position the truck so we were hidden and promptly filled it up! I am not sure about this at all. Apart from the safety issue, its illegal and could implement us as well as the garage owner. Will not be getting it refilled once its empty.

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Postby seathrift » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:08 am

I believe, but cannot confirm it, that re-filling gas bottles is illegal. The butane propane mix that is available in BG is highly explosive and a tiny static spark from your body to earth id enough to cause it. If memory serves me right a gas to air mix of around 11% will cause a bomb like explosion. It is essential therefore to have the cylinders checked at regular by a competent authority for suitability.
With regard to filling the cylinder full I believe that it is very dangerous to do so. The gas is at such a pressure that it is stored in liquid form and if the bottle is full then when the liquid expands the cylinder will have to expand to accommodate all of the expansion. This could result in a failure of the seal, the pressure relief valve or the cylinder itself. I seem to remember that cylinders should not be more than 80% full and should be kept upright at all times. Regulators to my knowledge have a pressure release valve. This release valve must be vented to outside atmosphere, so if your's does not have a fitting for a gas tube to go to the outside, then the bottle must not be used indoors.
As I have said a number of times before an LPG explosion is quite sufficient to totally demolish your house so do not take any risk at all. It is absolutely vital to be super safe with the use of LPG. I say again the safest way to buy is to get a factory filled one, available from many garages

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:36 am

I would second Seathrift's comments. I already almost burnt my old house down trying to do the workers a favour by turning on their 'small red' gas bottle that was connected to a gas 3 ring cooker. There doesn't appear to be any form of regulator between bottle and appliance, just a round on/off wheel. I obviously turned it too far, put their kettle on and left the building. When I went back some 5 minutes later, the whole cooker was on fire as was the old wooden sideboard it was sat on. Had I not got back in time, that Gaz bottle would have exploded and brought the house down.

For my caravan when the UK Calor Gaz bottle ran out and I simply couldn't find anyone with the correct adaptors to refill it, I switched over to a contract with Vita Gas. You see these Yellow bottles in cages at the Shell and other petrol stations. Admittedly, you have to make a contract and pay a deposit (I needed two bottles so had to make two contracts and pay two deposits), but at least I know that the bottles are serviced and filled to the correct pressure. However, I still had to connect it with a new Turkish manufactured click on regulator and new hose. These latter two should be checked and better changed every couple of years or so (in my estimation).

I believe that the Blue bottles I see at hardware stores are of the same standard, but I do not know the trade name or whether or not this is a contractual agreement as with Vita gas. Anyway, if you decide that you no longer require Vita gas, you take your bottles and your contract back and you get your deposit back. Better to be safe than sorry with these potentially dangerous bombs in your home.

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Postby seathrift » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:04 pm

Moscow-Wolf,
Just to complete the picture for you all gas bottles must have a regulator. The gas is stored at approximately 2 bar in the case of Propane and it would not be possible to have a regulated flame without one. In the case of the red bottles the regulator is within the tap to turn the appliance on and of, but I know of several cases where the tap has leaked with the red bottles. This is probably what happened to you. I believe they are of very poor quality and I would not use one.
I can confirm that it is not possible to get a factory made fitting to convert UK bottles for BG use.

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Postby Tiarnan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:07 pm

I broght a Kosangas yellow gas cylinder from Ireland 3 years ago. It was full when I brought it....only ever used for our Bar BQ at home....and was able to get it filled. Used the regulator from home too. Bought empty blue cylinders here and have been using regulators from home with no problems up to now... :roll: . Was in Varna today and saw the blue cylinders for sale....in Praktiker...for 90 leva....only 60 leva when we bought ours.
Last time we went to get cylinders filled they told us ...No........had to just swop for filled ones.
Obviously my yellow cylinder from home no use to me now as I can,t see them allowing me to swop it for a blue one.


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