Battery back up - central heating

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Cabbage
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Postby Cabbage » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:23 pm

Dear Jude,

If you allow me, may I use your thread to ask a question of my own? Sorry to do this, but this looks like the proper place and I don’t want to start a new thread just for this.

Could anyone please tell me if I can buy here, in Bulgaria, a UPS that uses a car battery? I need it for my computer. The one I have uses a small battery on which the computer runs for no more than several minutes. And believe it or not, the UPSs that allow for more than an hour cost more than a thousand levs, I have no idea why. I don’t need a power serge protector, I already have this, all I need is a plain UPS but with a bigger battery. Could I use for example a kind of UPS Jude talks about if the latter has the same voltage output? And if yes, where could I buy this? I suppose that simply changing the battery of my present UPS with a car battery will not work as the charging electronics hardly has the capacity to charge it and will probably burn out.

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Postby Slaphead » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:31 am

Cabbag, dunno where you are but Filbo, Varna sell UPSs with internal battery, plus facility to connect a car battery which it will keep charged.
The unit is approximately 160 lev. The car battery is extra and supplied by you at whatever cost you can get one.

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Postby croxleydog » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:00 am

Hi Cabbage,
I think you have found the solution already.as you have asertained that your battery is small therefore i assume you have accessed it..
From your local auto or DIY store buy at the enourmous cost of less than 5 Lev two battery connectors. One positive and one negative. There are different sizes to the terminalson the bateery (Pos is the biggest) also a length of colour coded twin core cable as required and two male push on terminals.remove the old battery and connect the cable to the two female connectors so you will gain the benefit of the in- line fuse built in.If you have to, drill a hole in the cpu case and pass the cable through. Connect the positive terminal to the cable attached to the red positve in the CPU and neg to the other, and fit to the battery. Bobs your uncle you now have a fully funtional large capacity cpu.
Total cost up to five levs and a bit of swearing.I am assuming you have a car battery allready. Dont forget to disconect from the mains when working on an opened CPU.
Good luck,
Mike

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Postby Cabbage » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:27 pm

Thanks for the advice guys.

Slaphead, I live in Sofia and haven’t seen the UPS type you talk about. But I probably have to look harder for it because if it is sold in Varna there’s no way that it can’t be found in Sofia. The price of 160 levs plus the cost of the battery is quite reasonable.

Croxleydog, what you explain to me is quite obvious but it is not the issue. The issue is, like I’ve wrote before, that the charging electronics in the UPS is hardly suited to charge a 40 Amp battery.

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Postby croxleydog » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:02 pm

sorry Cabbage,
You are totally wrong for a change. The trickle charge facility from any UPS is sufficient to maintain a battery of any Amp Hour capacity. The whole purpose of the charge facility is to replace any charge used when off mains power. It is quite capable of maintaining a lorry battery of 120 a/h as long as you dont have prolonged cuts in your domestic supply of 48 or more hours, then it might be a good choice of supplying an additional charge supply.ie battery charger of maybe 4 to 6 amps.That is the whole purpose of the system. I am useing leasure battery systems with my central heating,and my computers and for the last three years have had no problems and all three systems both dedicated c/heating and small dedicated computer type have maintained an acceptable level of charge in the batteries.It is simple Physics to work out that all the time you are connected to mains power you are also maintaining your charge level, ie charging your batteries with nothing taken out, therefore no problem. I think it is a case of horses for courses. You are a lawyer, I dont question your judjment on matters legal, but I am a retired person who for over fourty years dealt with 12 and 24 volt systems, and taught students the basics of DC and AC.Most have gone on to greater things.
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Postby xt600 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:16 pm

Cabbage, I have added extra batteries to my small (600va) UPS. I have drained these batteries during testing to see how long the system will operate my low energy security lights.
The batteries will then recharge fine but may just take a little longer.

As far as i'm aware (i'm only a domestic electrician, so electronics is not my speciallity) the charging circuit would not be damaged by any extra batteries added, it'll just take longer to charge.

If you do decide to open up your existing unit, do be carefull because even though dissconnected from the mains the unit may still have 240v floating around while the batteries are connected. Just be carefull what you touch! Also, make sure that all connections made are tight and secure, and use fairly heavy guage wire, at least as thick as the original wire which connects the original battery.

Colin...

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Postby Cabbage » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:11 am

croxleydog wrote:sorry Cabbage,
You are totally wrong for a change. The trickle charge facility from any UPS is sufficient to maintain a battery of any Amp Hour capacity.


Seems you are right and I’m wrong. Excuse me for doubting you. I haven’t tried it but I studied the subject by talking to technicians. However a new issue was raised. Some think that the inverter might burn as it’s not calculated to work for long with the original low capacity battery. They think that if it works for hours it’ll heat up.

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Postby croxleydog » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:36 am

Hi Cabbage,
It takes a man to admit their wrong, but one further point is that all inverters I have come across have heat exchangers, ie fin type radiators which enable the heat from an energy converter to be dissipated safely, rather like the cpu in your computer.Inverters 85% plus efficiency,therefore limited heat.
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Postby Slaphead » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:02 am

Cabbage wrote:
croxleydog wrote:sorry Cabbage,
You are totally wrong for a change. The trickle charge facility from any UPS is sufficient to maintain a battery of any Amp Hour capacity.


Seems you are right and I’m wrong. Excuse me for doubting you. I haven’t tried it but I studied the subject by talking to technicians. However a new issue was raised. Some think that the inverter might burn as it’s not calculated to work for long with the original low capacity battery. They think that if it works for hours it’ll heat up.


Hiya Cabbage.
I assume you've been talking to the technicians who are associated with selling you a UPS.
If your UPS has inbuilt, external terminals for connecting to an external battery, then the UPS should be capable of charging any size external 12v battery. If they say it isn't, then I'd seriously doubt the quality of the UPS they are trying to sell you.
e.g., I've just charge a 12v, 95A/H, 800A surge rated van battery on mine with absolutely no problems.

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Postby dcbg » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:32 am

Hi all.
Will be installing a simple heating system this summer. Wood burner with back boiler to 4 rads only. The hot water for shower and kitchen will be via a seperate electric boiler. This is to make it as simple as poss for me, as plumbing is my area of least knowledge, plus we wont need the burner on in the summer.
Could someone tell me what I need to operate a back up system to the central heating pump? (apart from a good car battery) and how it would be wired.? As I want to buy all the materials from the uk before we go.
Cheers.
p.s sorry to hijack this thread but the mod told me to, :(


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