I HATE the wood burning stove. Any alternatives please.

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karenm
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Postby karenm » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Slaphead wrote:
Moscow_Wolf wrote:
Slaphead wrote:
Also, picking up on a point that MW mad re smoke from the fire into the house. If you have that situation your installation is wrong. Sack your heating engineer and either get someone who knows what they're talking about or try doing a bit of research on Google regarding chimneys and stack effect. It's not rocket science.



That is a bit OTT. Everyone gets some smoke at some time unless they're perfect. If you let your fire die down and there is a back-draft it can smoke. Perhaps the Heating Engineer is not to blame, but me or, the man who built the chimney.


:roll:


I'm sorry I picked on your heating engineer, but the only times you should get smoke into your room from the fire is when the chimney is blocked, either by having the flu damper closed or by some other blockage in the chimney, this assumes the chimney and fire are correctly installed and the fire has a ready air supply.
As I said, there's a ton of info on the web about chimneys and stack effect and it doesn't need a degree in an engineering subject to understand it.
In the close to 5 years we've been here this is the first winter where I've been satisfied with our fire's performance.
To achieve this I've improved the installation, year on year to it's current configuration. The 2 most important parts of the improvements were the installation of an insulated flu/chimney (double skinned stainless flu with 3cm of insulation between the skins) and a continuous flexi steel flu liner connecting the output of the fire directly to the external, insulated flu.
Even with no fire lit, the fire draws air from the room regardless of what the conditions are like outdoors - that's stack effect.
We will be installing double glazing later this year. When we do this, I'll ensure that we don't seal the house. i.e. there'll be adequate ventilation throughout the year. Currently, we get condensation, but only on the single glazed, draughty windows. Condensation is a subject all of it's own but it only occurs where warm moist air meets a cold surface. This can be prevented by installing a vapour barrier which is what internally installed insulation can be.


Thius is my third year with the wood burner and this is the first problem I have had, my own fault I suppose for not checking the chimney out sooner

Bought a 7 metre sweeper from bricolage the other day and swept it this morning ( go a load of crap out) , looks to be back to normal now with a nice clean burn

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Postby spantrout » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:55 pm

I'll accept that u agree with me slaphead

but unfortunately in addition to the 10% carbon release that u state

where i'm from, soot is generally classed as carbon also!!!!!!! so u better start adding another % to ur 10

that's why i said carbon neutral!

(because all the figure i have seem to indicate burning 1000kg of wood releases all of CO2 it absorbed)

however i would question the amount of carbon in a system that processes wood into pellets (one would assume more CO2 involved) which then is burnt, releasing the inherent carbon, and the carbon used for production!

I may be wrong but to me the numbers don't add up, yes there is a reduction on fossil fuels which may reduce future impact, but there is still a level of production carbon to recoup. U may save money, but u might not save the planet!
Last edited by spantrout on Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Slaphead » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:58 pm

This may seem a bit OTT Karen, but I sweep our chimney at least three times during the winter and once more when we've stopped using the fire. At the same time, I clean the fire itself and chip all the accumulated crap off the water jacket. It's amazing how much clinker attaches itself to the internals of the fire. It's equally amazing how much more efficient the fire is after cleaning in that the water jacket heats up in no time flat even with a small fire in the hearth.

Slaps.

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Postby karenm » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:00 pm

Slaphead wrote:This may seem a bit OTT Karen, but I sweep our chimney at least three times during the winter and once more when we've stopped using the fire. At the same time, I clean the fire itself and chip all the accumulated crap off the water jacket. It's amazing how much clinker attaches itself to the internals of the fire. It's equally amazing how much more efficient the fire is after cleaning in that the water jacket heats up in no time flat even with a small fire in the hearth.

Slaps.


Yes I do the jacket regularly just not the chimney

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:02 pm

Slaphead wrote:
Moscow_Wolf wrote:
Slaphead wrote:
Also, picking up on a point that MW mad re smoke from the fire into the house. If you have that situation your installation is wrong. Sack your heating engineer and either get someone who knows what they're talking about or try doing a bit of research on Google regarding chimneys and stack effect. It's not rocket science.



That is a bit OTT. Everyone gets some smoke at some time unless they're perfect. If you let your fire die down and there is a back-draft it can smoke. Perhaps the Heating Engineer is not to blame, but me or, the man who built the chimney. :roll:


I'm sorry I picked on your heating engineer, but the only times you should get smoke into your room from the fire is when the chimney is blocked, either by having the flu damper closed or by some other blockage in the chimney, this assumes the chimney and fire are correctly installed and the fire has a ready air supply.
As I said, there's a ton of info on the web about chimneys and stack effect and it doesn't need a degree in an engineering subject to understand it.
In the close to 5 years we've been here this is the first winter where I've been satisfied with our fire's performance.
To achieve this I've improved the installation, year on year to it's current configuration. The 2 most important parts of the improvements were the installation of an insulated flu/chimney (double skinned stainless flu with 3cm of insulation between the skins) and a continuous flexi steel flu liner connecting the output of the fire directly to the external, insulated flu.
Even with no fire lit, the fire draws air from the room regardless of what the conditions are like outdoors - that's stack effect.
We will be installing double glazing later this year. When we do this, I'll ensure that we don't seal the house. i.e. there'll be adequate ventilation throughout the year. Currently, we get condensation, but only on the single glazed, draughty windows. Condensation is a subject all of it's own but it only occurs where warm moist air meets a cold surface. This can be prevented by installing a vapour barrier which is what internally installed insulation can be.


I don't disagree with you, but personally, I haven't had to think about an open fire for many many years. I, probably like most Brits/Irish folk that live here are used to just switching on the mains gas fire. I've never had to think about a chimney or its height or the draft it pulls - simple as that.

Then, you find yourself in Bulgaria building a new house with a 1000 experts all with differing advice, you live in a caravan on0site and want to get into your house as quickly as possible so......... mistakes happen, but they can be rectified without having to knock everything down and start again. I can increase the height of my chimney, I can feed it with only long seasoned dry wood, I can try to remember not to open the glass door when I have the flue partially closed and the air intake also closed. I can ensure my chimney is clean and not fouled up with synthetics that you're advised not to burn, BUT still, I will get smoke now and again and I will get dust and I will have to empty my ash can on windy days.............

I agree it is not rocket science, but for the layman, it takes some getting used too and we live and we learn. :wink:

Condensation, if you have it NOW, it'll be 'possibly' a bigger problem with double glazing. The trouble with all this insulation and double/triple glazing is a lack of fresh flowing air. Now, personally, I prefer an open window, but if you marry a Russian woman who is used to a constant 25 deg C indoors and hot running water 24/7 for 50 weeks of the year, you either divorce or, sneak the windows open every chance you get. :roll:

Plus, my Bulgarian heating engineer come plumber might not be the most experienced in the world, but he is very fair on his prices, shows me all the original purchase receipts and takes very little (sometimes nothing more than the fuel costs of getting here) in labour charges, always has work for Expats and Bulgarians so, I feel it is better to stick with the Devil you know. However, that doesn't stop me reading up and learning for myself, but I can only do so much, I more work than I can handle as it is.

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Postby Slaphead » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:03 pm

[quote="spantrout"]I'll accept that u agree with me slaphead

but unfortunately in addition to the 10% carbon release that u state

where i'm from, soot is generally classed as carbon also!!!!!!! so u better start adding another % to ur 10

that's why i said carbon neutral![/quote]

Yes, you nearly got me spantrout (Kinks?) :lol: Soot is basically carbon but doesn't get released to atmosphere and add to the greenhouse gas load. It goes into the ground and is good for growing leeks I believe.

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Postby spantrout » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:08 pm

MW i've had a woodburner for 3yrs, yes on occasion depending on wind direction i get smoke in the house (maybe 4 times a yr), but i can safely say i've never had condensation, regularly i have 2 windows open cos it's 30C inside and i'm melting, even with windows closed i never have condensation problems. Have u considered ur prob may be with the windows and not the heating?

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Postby spantrout » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:15 pm

slaphead wrote
Yes, you nearly got me spantrout (Kinks?) :lol: Soot is basically carbon but doesn't get released to atmosphere and add to the greenhouse gas load. It goes into the ground and is good for growing leeks I believe.


Ok i'll take that as an explanation, but i'll still always refer to burning wood as being carbon neutral :lol:

if it's better than that i'll take it, i'll put the extra down to the woodburner production, so we can still call it quits and say burning (unprocessed) wood does no harm to the environment

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Postby Moscow_Wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:23 pm

spantrout wrote:MW i've had a woodburner for 3yrs, yes on occasion depending on wind direction i get smoke in the house (maybe 4 times a yr), but i can safely say i've never had condensation, regularly i have 2 windows open cos it's 30C inside and i'm melting, even with windows closed i never have condensation problems. Have u considered ur prob may be with the windows and not the heating?


I'm sure that if I had no windows, I wouldn't have a condensation problem at all. As I said in an earlier post, all of my small house walls are painted with a Dulux washable paint which I guess is impervious so, although, I do not see water running down the walls, I do see marks usually above head height which I believe are from condensation. I can sometime see condensation on the inside of my windows especially the few small ones on the North side of the house.

We all give off carbon dioxide (unless dead) and I am a firm believer in having a fresh air supply in the house as often as one can have without freezing to death. I had the same problem in the caravan, but there we had a gas cooker in such a small place and two humans and at least one dog breathing so, we had condensation issues there too.

Perhaps, I'm too hot blooded. :wink:

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Postby spantrout » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:25 pm

Condensation to me indicates poor construction, but i'm no builder!!!!


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